Curse

Kelson · Dec 13, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Also, forgot to mention about Razah. Remove the Gem Requirement, make Heart of Abaddon more difficult.

The changes are much appreciated, but I have to agree: please remove the gem requirement from getting Razah. Do that and I think you remove 75% of the complaints.

natuxatu · Dec 13, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Well the gems to get the golds blew my mind.. i guess lowering it 15 takes away *some* of the blow but I was still thinking around 5 or 10 at most.. then again if the gems drop more often.. it should even out.

Thanks for keeping us informed!

Anarkii · Dec 13, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Thanks, good stuff making it easier to get the tormented items without nerfing it!

Lavindathar · Dec 13, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I can't believe you've done this Anet, really.

Fair enough on the CoW, I can understand that. But having the requirement of 25 gems WAS the challenge. This is the elite area, therefore make things nearly impossible to get.

Just because 90% of people on this site bitch that it's too hard...so what? It's the elite area. The rewards should of been kept high. The gem drop rate should of been kept how it was...Prices would of dropped anyway, as more and more people get to the DoA.

Really dissapointed that it's now EASIER to get Razah, and EASIER to get the torment weapons.

And for those about to flame me? I've spent hours in there, not recieved ONE gem drop, and still not completed any part of the quest...(So close on City and Stygian though).

That was the fun part, the challenge. Now it's just gonna be the same as every other area...with the Ebayers spending money to buy the gems, to get the good stuff.

All in all - Bad call in my opinion. You've made it easier to get things, in the ELITE area.

And dont forget, this is coming from someone who's had NO luck so far in the DOA. I've seen about 17 gems drop for my party, I've not had one.

Zinger314 · Dec 13, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavindathar

I can't believe you've done this Anet, really.

Fair enough on the CoW, I can understand that. But having the requirement of 25 gems WAS the challenge. This is the elite area, therefore make things nearly impossible to get.

Just because 90% of people on this site bitch that it's too hard...so what? It's the elite area. The rewards should of been kept high. The gem drop rate should of been kept how it was...Prices would of dropped anyway, as more and more people get to the DoA.

Really dissapointed that it's now EASIER to get Razah, and EASIER to get the torment weapons.

And for those about to flame me? I've spent hours in there, not recieved ONE gem drop, and still not completed any part of the quest...(So close on City and Stygian though).

That was the fun part, the challenge. Now it's just gonna be the same as every other area...with the Ebayers spending money to buy the gems, to get the good stuff.

All in all - Bad call in my opinion. You've made it easier to get things, in the ELITE area.

And dont forget, this is coming from someone who's had NO luck so far in the DOA. I've seen about 17 gems drop for my party, I've not had one.

Difficulty != Months of Endless Farming

manitoba1073 · Dec 13, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavindathar
I can't believe you've done this Anet, really.

Fair enough on the CoW, I can understand that. But having the requirement of 25 gems WAS the challenge. This is the elite area, therefore make things nearly impossible to get.

Just because 90% of people on this site bitch that it's too hard...so what? It's the elite area. The rewards should of been kept high. The gem drop rate should of been kept how it was...Prices would of dropped anyway, as more and more people get to the DoA.

Really dissapointed that it's now EASIER to get Razah, and EASIER to get the torment weapons.

And for those about to flame me? I've spent hours in there, not recieved ONE gem drop, and still not completed any part of the quest...(So close on City and Stygian though).

That was the fun part, the challenge. Now it's just gonna be the same as every other area...with the Ebayers spending money to buy the gems, to get the good stuff.

All in all - Bad call in my opinion. You've made it easier to get things, in the ELITE area.

And dont forget, this is coming from someone who's had NO luck so far in the DOA. I've seen about 17 gems drop for my party, I've not had one.

Considering that most ppl probably alrdy ebayed for there gems since the prices are very high. it will only make them cheaper for those that dont.

Now i consider this a good start to hopefully more improvements.

Hello Kitty · Dec 13, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That's twice as much as FoW armor for a subpar-skinned weapon!

How do you know they are subpar? I didn't think anyone had even seen anything beyond their icon yet...

Burst Cancel · Dec 13, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Some of you aren't taking into account how much gem prices will drop in coming months, even weeks. Do you believe any gem will be worth 100k after a month with this update?

I definitely appreciate this update. My main complaint with DoA was not that it was too difficult, but rather I didn't feel that the rewards were commensurate with the challenge and time invested. This brings the effort:reward ratio into more reasonable territory.

zerulus · Dec 13, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Pwnt...

Anyway, I'd like to complain, but I'm busy just quitting guild wars PVE now since RoT is pretty gay. Henchmen ball up and get by AoE easily, and I don't want to play with noobs or I can't find people to do what I want to do. How many people on the last mission want to go out and cap an assassin or ritualist elite? Not too many. Somehow I managed to get jagged bones after multiple res shrine meetings. Whoo.

You don't want to play with "noobs", but you can't even manage to flag your henchmen so that they aren't all in one little ball?

Etrik · Dec 13, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hello Kitty

How do you know they are subpar? I didn't think anyone had even seen anything beyond their icon yet...

There are rumors of someone having gotten an axe. No screenies yet tho.

And thank you gaile. Now if you would just be so kind as to remove the gem req on the Razah quest, i'll send flowers to your home all the way from Europe. <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerulus

You don't want to play with "noobs", but you can't even manage to flag your henchmen so that they aren't all in one little ball?

They'll still be balled up after you flag em. Henchies can't be solo-flagged. Stop making useless and stupid posts.

Lavindathar · Dec 13, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I see what you're saying.

People probably have ebayed already, no doubt about that. But still, I'm a regular player, couple of hundred k in the bank, every weapon i need but I've not wasted any cash on gems.

They will drop in price naturally (definately will now with this double drop %), but would of done anyway. So if people wanted to buy, they could of.

And the rewards will always be worthy of the time invested...as its only a select few (say 1%) will invest the time, only that select few would of had the rewards.

We finally had an elite area, with elite weapons, that were probably gonna rivalry the rareness of the crystaline. I think thats gone now. And I think it was needed. They've knocked 40 gems off the asking price of this ambrace...60 still sounds a lot, but that 40 difference would probably have been 1000's of weapons less on the market.

Thats why I was willing to work for one.

Nickhimself · Dec 13, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Not enough. Not even close enough.

I think you misinterpret how much the DoA Gemstones actually cost, Gaile.

I think you misinterprety how they intend you to actually gain these Gems: Through hard work and effort. Not through WTB GEMS PM W/ PRICE!

Going from 25 to 15 of each AND doubling the drop rate is MORE than enough. Instead of 100 Gems, it's only 60. That's almost half of what it was.

How about, instead of buying the Gems, you actually go into the DoA areas and.....earn them?

Burst Cancel · Dec 13, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

While I agree that 25->15 and 2x drop rate should be enough, the rest of your reasoning is flawed.

Whether you buy a gem or find it, the Armbrace still costs the same amount in gold. This is obvious if you're buying gems, since you're paying out-of-pocket for them, but if you find the gem, using it on the Armbrace represents an opportunity cost equivalent to the sell price of the gem. In other words, if you had sold that gem instead of trading it in, you could have made ##k, so the total cost of the Armbrace, whether you are buying the gems or finding them, is the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

3.) Make the gems and torment weapons UNTRADABLE. That would leave no doubt in other players minds that the person in possession of them earned it without the use of ebay gold.

I agree with this item. I do not the support the rest of your argument.

Requiring more gems simply increases the grind, not the skill. While it's true that the game's high-end cosmetic items are bought with grind, there needs to exist a limit. Your argument that Armbrace cost should be increased simply because DoA is for hardcore players is too open-ended.
- First problem: by hardcore players in this case, are you referring to people who like to grind, or people who are better at the game? If the former, then you are suggesting that DoA should be played only by grinders. If the latter, then you have no justification for increasing the cost of Armbraces.
- Second problem: how much should the cost be increased, and how do you justify that cost? What makes 100 of each gem more fair than 25 of each gem? How about 1000 of each gem? 10000 of each gem? I'm not saying this simply to be argumentative, but rather to outline an issue with your argument. If you want to increase the cost of the gems for the sole purpose of keeping Torment items out of the hands of all but the most 'hardcore' players, where do you set the limit, and how do you justify that limit?

Kalki · Dec 13, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I can't understand this change. I would rather have Anet go the other way with gem requirements. Make it require 100 of each gem, and make the gems UNTRADABLE. I thought this area was for HARDCORE PvE players. I was gonna get a set of weapons for my warrior. Now I'm not even sure I'll bother. Gems are gonna start selling for 10k each soon, and even people who buy gold on Ebay will be able to acquire what was previously elite weaponry only for the most hardcore and dedicated PvE players.

My tips for Anet in the future regarding DoA and other hardcore areas:

1.) Never make the areas easier. They are easy enough already, when you get an experienced leader, and run the right builds.
2.) Never nerf the gem requirements for Torment weapons ever again. This is NOT weaponry that everyone should have. It's almost acceptable that the gem requirement was nerfed within 2 weeks, and before anyone obtained a torment weapon, but another nerf like this in 2 months and heads will roll.
3.) Make the gems and torment weapons UNTRADABLE. That would leave no doubt in other players minds that the person in possession of them earned it without the use of ebay gold.

I'll still play DoA, cause it's a fun area to play, and it's still the most elite and hardcore area in Guild Wars. I still want an axe and shield for my warrior, but these changes took some of the replayability out of DoA for hardcore PvE players, and I don't think that's a good thing.

My guess is that these changes were made cause DoA went from 10+ districts at release to 2 districts currently. I honestly don't think that many people quit DoA permanently. Of course some did quit DoA and maybe even GW altogether, because they just couldn't take the challenge (I don't miss the crying and whining one bit). I think most people not in DoA districts are waiting for others to figure it out, and are still enjoying the rest of Nightfall (the game just came out 6 weeks ago). Some people are claiming that the sky is falling and DoA is dead already, but it sure isn't for me or the people I group with every night.

Etrik · Dec 13, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I think you misinterprety how they intend you to actually gain these Gems: Through hard work and effort. Not through WTB GEMS PM W/ PRICE!

Going from 25 to 15 of each AND doubling the drop rate is MORE than enough. Instead of 100 Gems, it's only 60. That's almost half of what it was.

How about, instead of buying the Gems, you actually go into the DoA areas and.....earn them?

One quarter, if you take the 2x drop rate into account. That's more than enough.

Edit: Yes, make gems untradable. Even if I casually farm Stygian ones to sell them. And even if it's kinda like making crystallines untradable. Actually, i'm neutral when it comes to this.

Gli · Dec 13, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

make the gems UNTRADABLE.

You do realize that a hefty percentage of the people playing DoA right now would leave the place, never to return, right?

Kalki · Dec 13, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You do realize that a hefty percentage of the people playing DoA right now would leave the place, never to return, right?

Good bye.

And more people would come in to replace them to obtain the most elite weapons in the game.

Zinger314 · Dec 13, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I think you misinterprety how they intend you to actually gain these Gems: Through hard work and effort. Not through WTB GEMS PM W/ PRICE!

Going from 25 to 15 of each AND doubling the drop rate is MORE than enough. Instead of 100 Gems, it's only 60. That's almost half of what it was.

How about, instead of buying the Gems, you actually go into the DoA areas and.....earn them?

Hey, everyone lets go roll dice and maybe we'll get luck and get a Gemstone drop! Let's go do it for months and months and months...it's effort and hard work, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

And more people would come in to replace them to obtain the most elite weapons in the game.

Yes, because "elite weapons" are much more powerful than weapons I can buy for 5k from crafters in cities.

And every "elite" player has either done the mission and given up or is farming it now. There will be no "new people." If DoA made both Savio and Racthoh flinch, I fear for its longevity.

Kalki · Dec 13, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Hey, everyone lets go roll dice and maybe we'll get luck and get a Gemstone drop! Let's go do it for months and months and months...it's effort and hard work, right?

Hey I have a better idea! Let's go buy ebay gold and get torment weapons without actually setting foot in the DoA area! Hey I work hard in my real life job! (sarcasm)

BTW it won't take months to find 25 of each gem ROFL

Lavindathar · Dec 13, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Who cares if they leave?

The ELITE mission (Notice the word elite, and please look up its definition), is meant to be the hardest of all areas. And within 2 weeks, its been nerfed.

If people have quit the game because DoA is too hard, then they were never really interested anyway. Theres still 3 whole PvE campaigns to play, not to mention SF/Deep/Urgoz.

Please Anet, PLEASE dont make this area any easier just to cater to the whiners and bitchers. If its too hard for them, they shouldnt play it. Let them play the normal PvE campaign. You've done your bit, it's accessible to them. It's their choice if they want to play it or not.

But, now Anet have done this, within 2 months I can see a change in the difficulty of the quests. They'll lower the spawns, or the level of the enemies etc. It's just gonna get nerfed, because Anet employees read these forums and see whining as "feedback". Everyone asked for elite mission. You made it elite. They moan. You backtrack and nerf.

Take the feedback of us people that completed NF, and want a challenge. I remember reading threads saying "Realm Of Torment" is too hard, I can't do it, yada yada. Although it was more difficult than most areas so far in GW, I still thought it was fairly do-able.

And DoA, I'm enjoying because it's so frustrating and hard. And thats what keeps me going back.

I know now Anet will not revert back to the 25 gem cost etc (although you should, and keep the drop rate how it is - you can nerf the cofffers if you want, I think thats reasonable), but please don't nerf it anymore.

And if people complain? Tell them to look up the definition of elite, and tell them it's their choice whether to play that area or not.